Last night I went to the local watering hole, where my wife and I go in the late afternoon for a mild sedative and to work on our Italian and dialetto piemontese. We're almost always the only non-Italians.
The owner brought out some snacks toped with anchovies. These were the small flat, brown, oil-packed, anchovy filets just like the ones sold in America in those small tins. They have a strong, salty, almost metallic flavor but they don't have a real "fishy" or spoiled odor. The bones are more like tiny hairs and are not removed.
I asked one of my friends if he would call these fish acciughe or alice? His reply was that the two words mean exactly the same thing. Oh boy, that started it. Everyone put down their wine so that they could talk with both hands and the discussion immediately got passionate. In a few seconds voices were raised, men sat forward in their chairs, the group split into two opposing camps, and the fun began.
A foreigner passing by might have mistaken this for a real fight and could verey well have anticipated the onset of gun fire or at least a display of knives. Of course it was simply the usual discussion among the best of friends who have known each other for 50 years or more. It was, one might say, the Italian version of polite conversation.
Half claimed the two words are identical and the other half claimed that the Acciuga and the Alice are completely different fish. There was some talk that they might be the same fish prepared differently. No conclusion was reached.
My search on the Internet did not produce a definitive answer but I did find some claims that Alice is a dialect word meaning Anchovy. Others argue that Alice is a genuine Italian word.
I have seen some larger fish in our local market that Americans would call sardines (small fish from over 100 species) which are locally called Acciughe and/or Alici. They're usually packed in salt (but sometimes oil) and are large enough to remove the backbone. They most definitely have a very strong "fishy" smell and taste. They remind me of bait left too long in the sun and I don't eat them, even though I like the previously mentioned type.
Does anyone here think they have the "real answer" about the meaning of the two words.
If not, can anyone explain why my phone company is named "Alice"? Does the correct pronunciation of my telephone company have two or three syllables or does it change between English and Italian?
Bob
America seems like a dream to me now.
In my experience it's the same animal but it's called alice when it's not salty.
Alice is a three-syllable woman's name and the name of the company is Telecom. Alice is their internet service.
I agree! My daughter is called "Alice" and, of course, I pronounce it with two syllables and my husband with three. People have asked us which is the "right" way and how it is registered but obviously you can't register a pronunciation, only a name so I claim she has an English name and my husband thinks she has an Italian one.
My daughter is Alice too! Always makes her smile if she sees herself on the menu.
Funnily enough I've very recently had this discussion at my local wine bar with similar results..... or not, if you see what I mean! I think the consensus was that they were different, though truth to tell it can be difficult to unravel the conversations of 8 or so people all speaking at once in a language not your own.
To be honest, as a kid in Rome many years ago it was always alice: I don't remember hearing acciughe at all and first heard it here. Comments from outside the NW would be welcome...
Agree completely with JAP.
alici - the name of the fish fresh. The fish preserved with oil (sott'olio) is also called alici.
acciughe -alici that are preserved with oil and salt are called acciughe - like you get in the little tins in the US (anchovies). Sometimes you get them flat in the little tin and sometimes they are wrapped around capers.
Alice (capital A) woman's name or the Internet service.
I think that the Italian use of the name Alice is borrowed from the English language. My guess is that it became popular from the Victorian use of the name Alice, e.g. Alice in Wonderland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_(given_name)
Bob -
To make it complicated for you there is also "alacce". Same family of fish as "alici" (anchovy) but a different subspecies.
Sardines as in the US (italian - sardine) sardine sott'olio (preserved in oil).
Look at this for the products
http://www.acciughe-doc.com/prodotti/de#Sarde_Salate
Alici & alacce are a "blue fish" - they shine blue at night.
Boh, maybe it's a regional thing but the salty ones were always known as alice in roman pizzerias when i was young: I always wanted them on my pizza!
So the anchovy/alice is Engraulis encrasicolus . I think your allaccia is from Family Clupeidae and is a subspecies of sardine: Sardinella aurita.