I know it's not that simple, but that was the most succinct tag line I could come up with.
I've actually been working on this problem for over a year now, and think I've been almost completely defeated by Italian bureaucracy, but I thought I'd try a question one last time here with what I've learned.
We're an American homeschooling family. We moved to Italy about nine months ago and our daughter (just finished her junior year, by US reckoning) took online classes in the US while attending a high school level conservatory. She'd like to move on to the college level there, but she needs a piece of paper with a stamp on it saying she has the maturita' or some equivalent. The question is, what equivalent?
We've followed various trails all year on how we might could achieve this. One of the ones I've most often seen is that she can get a GED (so says the consulate in NY) plus 4 APs and a year of college. http://www.studiare-in-italia.it/studentistranieri/moduli/allegato1.pdf
4. TITOLO STATUNITENSE DI HIGH SCHOOL
Ai fini dell'immatricolazione al primo anno accademico, tale titolo deve essere seguito e integrato: da due anni
completi del corso ulteriore di "College" e dalla conseguita idoneità per il passaggio al terzo anno, ovvero da un anno
completo del corso ulteriore di “College” con la conseguita idoneità per il passaggio al secondo anno ed il superamento di
quattro “Advanced Placements statunitensi” (APs) , in materie diverse attinenti al corso di studio universitario richiesto. Se
uno degli “Aps” è in italiano è da ritenersi valido per tutti i corsi accademici.
L’integrazione è da ritenersi valida anche se la frequenza del percorso successivo al conseguimento del titolo di
High School ha luogo presso istituzioni universitarie di altro Paese. In tal caso, i competenti Organi accademici valutano la
congruità del percorso stesso che non può comunque avere durata inferiore ad un anno.
But we've had a series of meetings this week in which the personnel involved have said there's no way to say whether this will be accepted. Bascially, this is one of those maddening situations in which there must be a way for an American to enter an Italian university/conservatory, but since there's no way to get the piece of stamped paper the conservatory director needs, then practically speaking, there really isn't after all.
The only think we can think of to do at this point is to send her to an IB school for the last two years of Italian high school, and that's what we'll do if we have to, but for any number of reasons (including that she'd miss chemistry and US history altogether), it's not either my daughter's preferred way to end her high school education, or mine. We have to make the decision in about a week.
So, does anyone know of an American student who has managed to get into an Italian university without attending Italian high school? And if so, what was the path they took? We know some non EU people who attend the conservatory, but they're all biennio, or graduate, students, so they already had an entire foreign uniiversity degree when they came in.
Thanks!
I know, call me an American idealist, but there's got to be someone who's done it! (Sorry, don't know what happened to the font.)
No University in Europe will take you without proof that you have passed the maturita, Bac, A levels or SAT's of your home country. Where you don't have that countries language as your mother tongue you will also be required to prove your proficiency. Also I am not sure that the IB will automatically qualify her for a Uni place here either - normally it is Esabac that is taken, a combination of the French Bac and the maturita - I know because my son IS taking the IB and it is specifically so he can attend a British Uni in two years time. I thought that even homeschoolers took exams though, am I wrong? In the UK you homeschool so your kids can still sit the national exams at a recognised exam centre. This done and if they are passed you then receive the certificate which is your proof to the Uni's that you have the required grades etc...without some kind of proof of her abilities I don't see how she can get a place, not in Europe anyway, I have no clue how it would done in the US.
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I have.
In order to be a first year university student in Italy, your daughter needs to have completed 60 credits of American university.
The rationale, being, of course that Italian highschool is equivalent to two years of university education in the U.S. (Italian high school is one year longer than American high school). So I got my 60 credits, got my dichiarazione di valore in loco on the transcripts and left for Italy. The whole 60 credits thing is absolutely rdiculous. It's all very, very, very surprising to me, since I found the quality of Italian high school AND university to be severely lacking when I both taught at Italian high school and attended two different universities in Italy.
I would not reccommend going to Italy to study, unless it's study abroad.
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The OP is already in Italy and her daughter is homeschooling here in Italy via a US online programme...from what she has said she won't have any way of proving her studies. I don't think your experience is relevant unfortunately.
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Yes, Alyson, homeschoolers take exams all the time. If the MIUR people in Torino would allow an SAT, that would be great. In the US, homeschoolers take whatever tests their prospective colleges require, but usually it's a patchwork of College Board tests, not a single exit exam. (Most universities, for instance, don't ask for the GED.) My daughter was already taking APs according to the "4 APs and a year of college rule" on the MIUR website and had planned on taking more, but will of course discontinue that plan if she goes to the IB school. The problem is that we can't get the Ministero to commit to accepting anything American at all, so this is not just a homeschool problem, but an American problem.
It's also slightly an "in-between ages" problem. She's too old to start high school over studying for the maturita' (it's legal to homeschool here and take it), and too young to transfer in as an American college student. We'd could also to send her to an American university for a year, if that would do it. (Admittedly it would be a logistical headache, but they said no online college.) But yesterday they weren't committing to anything.
Interesting that you say the IB might not cut it either. The IB school assures me that it does, at least for Italy. They say graduates apply as foreign students. I'll be sure to ask the school about other countries, though. Given a choice, I think my daughter would rather go to conservatory in Germany, but we started with Italy since she's already in a conservatory here and we could at least go ask someone in the same city.
And of course she will need the language. She's already passed the Italian language test and taken classes at the Italian conservatory for a year, so it would be a matter of studying German, which unfortunately is the only major European language that the IB school doesn't offer.
Ricciolina, I do understand the irony of the 60 credits as an equivalent. The conservatory here wants her to apply early to their triennio, because she's ready musically. There's no question whatsoever of her being able to do the work, even the school says that much: it's a matter of how to get the stamped piece of paper. But I'm glad you found a way in. Are you still in school here?
Basically the schools that normally offer IB here are private International schools. They tend to tailor the IB to fit the country their pupils are going to. So my son will take the IB in 50% English and French and that will enable him to apply to French and English speaking Unis. The school also offers the Esabac which is a combi of the maturita and the French Bac, not the IB. So if the school is offering an IB that is Italian based with other languages then that would be absolutely fine. It is just more unusual to find it as the schools tend to offer both IB and Maturita rather than an Italian based IB. How old is she? My son has just repeated what we call 12th grade in the UK and is seconde in France ( he should be in Premiere but we and the school wanted him to get his French up to scratch before starting the IB course.) So he is 17 this current school year that is just finishing.
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Alyson, I don't think this IB diploma is any kind of combo, but it explicitly says on the website that it is accepted by Italian universities. I'm just not so sure about other European countries, and I plan to ask a lot of questions about that when I go back to the school.
My daughter is 17 and has just completed 11th grade in the US system.
Ricciolina, if you see this, would you mind posting more details about exactly how you found and managed to complete the 60 hour requirement? The reason I ask is that it's so hard to get a straight answer, with specific details, that perhaps if I knew some, I could pave a way to do the same here. My daughter is not against going back to the US for at least a year or two to attend college there; we'd just need to make a decision about which is the wisest route to take.
Some things that would be helpful to know are: Who (or what agency, or website) told you about this 60 hour requirement? Is it written anywhere? Is there a law citation? What sort of path did you take to get approval, and through which agencies, both US and Italian? What was the final piece of paper called?
Since you are familiar with Italian bureaucracy, you probably know why I am asking. Everyone tells me they don't know the answer, and that it's a difficult case. All I really care about is that in the end we get that stamped piece of paper that the conservatory needs, saying that she has a degree equivalent to the maturita'. We didn't even know what it was they needed (a stamped piece of paper from MIUR) until last week, even though we'd asked many times! We had been led to believe (in various ways) that they had discretion. So, as concrete and detailed a description as possible would be most helpful.
Thanks!
Just to confirm the Italian authorities do not accept online college course work? I have been teaching online for 10 years and had a suggestion for an online college in New York. The college is fully accredited and part of the state univrsity system. The fees would be relatively modest for US higher education.
Another alternative would be an on ground school in Rome, John Cabot University. A feature with these choices is that the language of instruction is English.
It seems that different web sites of university and consulate state different requirement, but it is possible to enroll without the 60 credit hour requirement. When I received the Declaration of Value from the Italian consulate in Philadelphia, the document states as long as I have the high school diploma and have taken the SAT, the university can accept them for admission. I think she should just get the GED certificate, get the Declaration fo Value, and take the SAT or ACT and apply to an Italian university.
During one of the meetings last week, we were told no online college. This wasn't with MIUR, but with some personnel at a liceo. I'm never quite sure how official these pronouncements are.
But a "brick and mortar" American college in Italy: Now that's an idea.
Chipotle, what you say is both interesting and maddening. We'd love to do that! Did you then use your declaration to attend an Italian school? (Not an American college in Italy, but a traditional Italian university that requires the maturita'.) It does clearly say on the Study in Italy website that students need a year of college plus 4 APs, two years of college, or an IB with Italian language. And did you do so as a resident of Italy, or as a resident of the US moving to Italy?
Hmmm, some Italian universities have begun to offer some serious on-line English-based undergraduate degree program. I find it ironic they wouldn't accept those from the U. S. For example, Universita di Urbino, which is a very old Italian university, offers a computer science degree program with a rigorous cirruculum on-line, in English. You may also follow courses and earn credit without having to enroll. In Turin, they also offer some undergraduate and graduate programs in English in several majors.
The problem what Italy is the discrepency between what is written and how it is applied by individual institution or people in charge. I give you an example, when I dealt with a car importation, certain requirement written were not applied, and some requirement written nowhere was asked. You have to always negotiate and not to take the first answer.
I am not an Italian citizen, but I am a resident. That makes the process a little easier, because I don't have to ask anything from a consulate except the Declaration of Value, that is one thing the school can't wavie.
Furthermore, the credit hour requirement by Italian university is unnecessary. I also attended college in the U. S., and we had a top program that in the first two years one would have enough skills to build production-quality electronics and software. I think it's a way to keep the number of American students down.